All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2021. The mono summing switch is nice, but the switch is deafening loud when you flip it (mechanical sound, not the sound of the switch in the speakers). It’s been suggested that I look into Avantone … Because both the power supply and power amp are built in, it’s longer than either the original passive Auratone or the active Avantone. It also comes in a more modern version, the C50, which has a black finish and- like the Avantone- goes a little deeper and higher in frequency. You can make great mixes with whatever you currently have! For you. Got it. The top plate and T-yoke of the magnetic motor are made of Sumitomo 1008 low-carbon steel, to maximise flux density in the coil gap. 60-watt Active Mini Full-range Reference Monitors with 5.25" Driver, Shielded Design, and Built-in Stand Mounts (pair) - Red. Avantone Passive MixCube Mini Reference Monitor - Cream, Single - Vintage King. Read more about the Avantone here. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the Auratones’ sealed, single-woofer design means they’re free of strange resonances, in the low-end or anywhere else. I fear it would cause me to chase down and carve out resonances and midrange clutter that weren’t actually issues, potentially leading to more anemic-sounding mixes. 00 true. Call 800-472-6274 for expert advice. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Still, what I was most interested in was the sound. First is the moment when – listening to playback and finally feeling that the mix sounds amazing – you suddenly realize that you’re still listening to those tiny boxes. Auratones though, will never lie to you. It’s important to remember that the differences I’ve written about here aren’t night-and-day, but a matter of degree. The mono summing switch is nice, but the switch is deafening loud when you flip it (mechanical sound, not the sound of the switch in the speakers). For their part, the classic Auratones sounded more upfront, and maybe a little “pinched” by comparison. I should also mention that out of the box, there were a … They are the closest monitors to the old Auratones imaginable. Both sets have been consciously designed to update the design of one of the most celebrated mix reference speakers: the now discontinued Auratone 5C Sound Cube. The Avantone Active Mixcubes are designed to be high-resolution, full-range powered mini-reference monitors for fixed or remote locations. Thankfully, they still have the excellent transient response of the originals, and I’m sure their unique idiosyncrasies can be learned just as well. In a moment, you’ll read a review of the Avantone MixCubes and the new “Behritone” C5a Monitors by Behringer and find out how they stacked up alongside the original. Buy your Avantone Pro Mono-BLOK Active MixCube Single Self-Powered Mix Cube from Sam Ash and receive the guaranteed lowest price. What you must keep in mind is that speakers like this aren't intended to be used as your only monitors. I want to know if anyone can recommend a cheaper alternative to the Avantone Mix Cube? Alternatives to the Proposed Project: Describes the alternatives and compares their impacts to the impacts of the proposed projectAlternatives include. First, although they don’t reproduce extreme highs and lows, the mid-range frequencies they do deliver are remarkably well-balanced for making crucial mix decisions. Contrary to the common wisdom, the Auratones’ greatest strength was never in their ability to approximate an average listener’s system. Re: Mix Cube Alternatives. On the other hand, for those who fall prey to mixing far too dark (even on Auratones) the Behritones could be especially helpful. AVANTONE MixCubes Active Mini Reference Monitors Features: Mosfet amplifier in each MixCube. Avant also increased the thickness to further reduce box resonances, so the finished monitors weigh a little over 7lbs each and are slightly larger than the original. Here is the fundamental knowledge and information that a beginning or intermediate electronic musician must have to understand and play today's keyboard synthesizers. They are, technically speaking, bad speakers. In sound, The Behritone C5a was the … Reminiscent of the Auratone 5C antecedents, the Avantone MixCube Monoblock takes the same concept of handy secondary reference monitors - and moves it up a gear. It is our belief that great audio products can be created without charging thousands of dollars for them. Cheap and Cheerful. I’m in love with Auratone speakers and have been for years. Available immediately. Power Output: 60 Watts RMS. Like the Auratones, they tend to make the vocals sound a little on the forward side, but they are good at checking which bass sounds work on a band-limited consumer system, as any deep bass is outside their range. $ 259 .00 (each) Special Financing - … 00. A Music Magazine For People Who Make Music, The World’s Best Books On Creating, Recording and Publishing Music, will tend to sound like the inverse of your speakers. These 5.5" Avantone MixCubes are shielded, full-range mini reference monitors perfect for active recording and as mix down monitors. System Type: Active (Self-Powered) Shielded Full-Range Mono Frequency Response: 90Hz - 17,000Hz (Useful Musical Range) Impendance: Nominal 8 Ohms Max SPL: 104db @ 1 Meter = 1%THD (Pink Noise) Amplifier Type: Class A/B Amplifier Power: 60 Watts [email protected].005% THD (1khz) Amp Frequency Response: 22Hz-50khz +0db/- 3db (90Hz-50khz +/-0db) We are very sensitive to … Iâm mostly mixing with streaming services in mind, and just for my own band. The benefit of the Mix Cubes is that they are a single driver speaker. Found insideMixing Secrets for the Small Studio is the best-selling primer for small-studio enthusiasts who want chart-ready sonics in a hurry. However, these are no longer in production, so the only way to get hold of them is on the second-hand market. 299. . Avantone mixcubes alternatives Hi there! Avantone Active MixCube is $279.10 more expensive than the average studio monitor ($199.99). This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important, and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. So my mixes are wack for lots of reasons, mostly a lack of skill, but also because I have rear ported monitors that are about 4â from a brick wall due to space and desk constraints which I canât overcome at this time. Iâm using a Lepai class D amp right now and if I go with a passive upgrade Iâd likely upgrade the amp, as well. Side-by-side with the originals, they sounded more relaxed, more open, and more extended. The Audio Expert takes the intermediate to advanced recording engineer or audiophile and makes you an expert. The book goes far beyond merely explaining how audio "works. Avantone Pro then chose an elegant Polyurethane high gloss "Retro-Cream" finish. Add To Wish List. (0) write a review. That makes sense given their size and sealed design. Recognized for over 50 years as the best-paced and most comprehensive guitar method available, Alfred's Basic Guitar Method has introduced over 3 million beginners to the joy of playing guitar. This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important, and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. Found insideIf you’ve had trouble getting your music to be as good as the musicians you look up to, then this book can help you understand the practices they use to make their music so great. Engineered to build a full range, rugged, mini-reference monitor to replace the older, aging, 5C Sound Cubes that are still in use worldwide, while offering an improved, more linear frequency response. The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. I can afford the gear, I just donât want to buy or build speakers that wonât get me the results Iâm looking for. Do your mixes translate well to radio or consumer audio systems? What would you recommend for the amplifier? Helpful tips: If you are able to search the book, search for "Where are the lesson files?" Go to the very last page of the book and scroll backwards. Peterson Goodwyn on November 12, 2014 18:06. If there are more advanced features inside, like crossover components and other design features, it would make more sense to just purchase them. The AVANTONE MixCubes are shielded, full-range mini reference monitors. And I don't mean that rhetorically -- I mean, can they just brute force through it? During that time they discovered that there were several versions of the Auratone driver, with widely varying frequency responses, so they picked the most linear and set about emulating that, throwing in a few improvements alongthe way. No woofer to tweeter crossovers, less separation in the mix. Avantone Pro started with a 165mm (6 1/2") sealed cube design with radiused edges. SKU #J00696000002000. Found insideDiscusses the transition from a business model based on traditional music outlets to digitally- based music products and distribution channels and the impact of the change on the future of the music trade and on the consumer. The final cabinet design is a 165mm (6.5-inch) sealed cube … To appreciate why this Avantone speaker was created, you have to understand the original. Found insideSelf’s background in design for manufacture ensures he keeps a wary eye on the cost of things. This book features the engaging prose style familiar to readers of his other books. Isn’t sound just… So great? You are correct that rear ported speakers 4" from a brick wall is hamstringing you. In a lot of ways, they were right. The people at Avantone and Alto Music were kind enough to lend me a pair of their new MixCubes. This item is in stock and can be dispatched immediately. (Amadeus). This is the story of how the Steinway piano came to be the instrument of choice for the world's greatest pianists. What’s important in this mix? If you are just starting out or looking for a step up in industry, Modern Recording Techniques provides an in depth excellent read- the must have book The Avantone MixCube Active 10th Anniversary Red is designed to be a high-resolution, full-range powered mini-reference monitors for fixed or remote locations. or Best Offer. A polished mounting bezel also improves on the utilitarian appearance of the originals, though the paper cone has been retained, apparently made using New Zealand pulp with added mica fibres to increase the strength. Avantone Pro chose to use thicker, denser MDF board because of its high rigidity and inherent low-resonance characteristics. I was impressed by the visual presentation right off the bat. Each of these speakers is successful in it’s own way: The Avantone for its neutral and extended sound, the Behritone for being extremely cost-effective, and the original Auratone for having an extremely narrow sweet-spot that encourages mix choices that have been proven to translate well. And because there is little in the way of low-frequency output the cubes will help avoid the problems in small home studios with monitor proximity to walls (see the WSS article here for more on that ). They can’t. Central sounds became bold, memorable and dynamic, while supporting ones found a sensible place to live. 48 equal monthly payments required. Very few homes, cars or TV sets ever had speakers that sounded much like these. Stand up. Although I initially thought a $480 street price seemed a little steep for such a simple design, finally examining them made me feel differently. The final cabinet design is a 165mm (6.5-inch) sealed cube with radiused edges and a cream-coloured, high-gloss polyurethane finish. Even if you’re in search of your own personal “grot-boxes”, it’s important to know what made them such a successful design. $295. The Avantone Active Mixcubes are designed to be high-resolution, full-range powered mini-reference monitors for … It’s always more uplifting, and ultimately, more reliable than doing the reverse. Orders placed by 4:00pm ET Monday - Friday will ship the same day. In sound, The Behritone C5a was the opposite of the Avantone in some ways. 5.25″ shielded full-range 8 ohm drivers. Get a low price and free shipping on thousands of items. What drivers were using on that video? This design is intended to be better than the original: the mid range is less coloured and smoother, with a better-defined high end, but the general character is much as I remember from my old (long-since departed) Auratones. £239. Auratones used a five-inch driver with a stamped steel chassis, whereas the Avantones use a slightly larger 8Ω 5.25-inch driver with a die-cast aluminum chassis. Tell me. Learn more. But they are bad on purpose. Out of the 3 sets of speakers I listened to, I have to admit that the Avantone MixCubes sounded the most “neutral.” I could probably listen to them all day without feeling like I was missing too much. Avantone MixCubes are available for approximately $240 for a single active speaker or a passive speaker pair; and $480 for an active pair. Behringer’s active C5a and C50a are available for $100 per speaker and up. On top of that, the lower midrange was a little tubby and exaggerated for my tastes. Avantone Active MixCube Studio Monitor Specifications. For those of you who like to DIY, you can also build your own Auratone clone. I have a pair of passives that I built out of cheap oval car speakers. Before evaluating these speakers, you have to keep in mind that they were created specifically as a 'real world' secondary reference rather than a compact alternative to full-range studio monitors. 8% bought Avantone MixCubes Active Black Single. Like the ubiquitous Yamaha NS-10, Auratones work because they help lead mixers in the right direction, and because they remind us to focus on the choices that really matter. 6% bought Avantone MixCubes Active Single Cream. This item is in stock and can be dispatched immediately. It’s simple really. Are there any other alternatives available? The secondary engineering facet was to create a timeless design that compliments a single full-range transducer. So all of the sound is coming from one place versus most near field monitors which have both a woofer and a tweeter. This is by far my best ‘add-on’ purchase I've made, and I use it at the beginning and end of every mix. Car testing. It's in the top 3 bestselling studio monitors and has dozens of popular alternatives in the same price range, such as KRK Rokit 8 G3 or JBL 308P MkII. Piano/Keyboard Methods/Series Iâm looking for a passive option currently, so if the design is simply a thick MDF cube with binding posts and a reference driver, stuffed with poly fill, I would just build them, perhaps with a 6â driver rather than 5.5â. They go deeper, higher, and were designed to have an even flatter midrange response. A neoprene pad, just over a quarter of an inch thick, is recessed into the bottom of the box to provide a degree of acoustic isolation, and to stop the speaker sliding around. I have that running from my Mac Pro lap top, headphone output 1/8 jack and into the Roland 1/8 input,The main studio monitors are connected to the interface’s. Avantone MixCube 5.25" Passive Studio Monitors (Pair), Buttercream Black. Aha, he exclaimed. I use the Roland CM-30 Cube, very versatile and at a cost of 219.00. What Iâm trying to avoid is having to âguessâ what the right levels are based on predicting outcomes rather than hearing them. Auratones aren’t the only ones worth using, but they do some things that not every set of speakers are capable of. The quality is higher than the old jobs, but it matches the mp3 quality very well and will provide a very accurate example of what your mix will sound like on an iPod. Get the guaranteed best price on Powered Studio Monitors like the Avantone Mix Cube Active Powered Monitor at Musician's Friend. This is the crossover point. Nickel-plated metal binding posts, designed to accept banana plugs or bare wires, replace the lightweight plastic originals, and are mounted on a black anodised aluminium plate at the rear of the cabinet. They'll tell you if your mix will sound OK on a the radio or TV, or in the car, but they'll offer few clues as to how your dance track might sound played over a club PA system! Their design is inspired by the legacy of the 5C Sound Cubes used in virtually all-major studios for the last 25 years. Peterson Goodwyn on November 12, 2014 18:06. Kick drums, snares, and bass guitars sounded a little sluggish by comparison, and I have my suspicion this has to do with the larger cabinet size. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the audioengineering community. And if you listen on big, impressive-sounding beasts with an extended top and impressive bottom end- well- it just might be the reason your mixes sometimes come across as dull, bland, cluttered, grey – homogenized. In its determination to preserve the century of revolution, Gale initiated a revolution of its own: digitization of epic proportions to preserve these invaluable works in the largest archive of its kind. Those were Visaton FR12 2061 and an unknown part number from All Electronics. The Avantone Mixcubes use MDF, as it is more dense and thus better suited to acoustic applications. Avant also increased the thickness to further reduce box resonances, so the finished monitors weigh a little over 7lbs each and are slightly larger than the original. There's also a 5/8-inch mic-stand thread set into the base, which wasn't present on the original. Products, practices, and stories about the profession or hobby of recording, editing, and producing audio. (Technical Reference). More than simply the book of the award-winning DVD set, Art & Science of Sound Recording, the Book takes legendary engineer, producer, and artist Alan Parsons' approaches to sound recording to the next level. The MixCube that served in so many significant studios as a leading reference speaker over the last quarter century or so. Avantone MixCubes Active Black. JRocker Regular Posts: 74 Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:42 am. The solution to your problem is practice. Avantone Pro. This title contains the proceedings of the 2013 5th International Conference on Advanced Computer Control, held in Singapore. A great second reference to see how your mixes will play on non-hi-fi systems. Welcome, dear readers, to the exciting universe of First Admiral. All rights reserved. $225.00. Ten months of R&D comparative listening & tweaking went into the voicing of the AVANTONE MixCubes. We upgraded to high-end nickel plated, machined solid metal binding posts (Dual banana spacing) … Avantone Pro. And at only a $100 street price for a single speaker, it’s miles better than not having a decent mono reference speaker at all. Every great mix engineer I’ve ever met knows the value of small grot-boxes like these. Would you say that going with a front ported monitor would be a better solution given my situation? Aren’t you glad you have all of these nice things?” But unlike larger, full-range speakers, Auratone Super Sound Cubes would never lull you into a false sense of security. We are very sensitive to … The result is a very smooth sounding, full range upgrade from the original 5C Sound Cubes. Found insideThis book Chromatic Lines Over Standard Tune Chord Progressions is designed to free the improvisor from the normal sounds that he or she usually plays. I have that running from my Mac Pro lap top, headphone output 1/8 jack and into the Roland 1/8 input,The main studio monitors are connected to the interface’s. Midrange clutter cleared up. Question about Avantone Mixcubes and possible DIY alternative. Interesting Alternative Though not as much of a heavy-hitter as some of the other items on this list, the Avantone Mix Cubes nonetheless offers several interesting features. If you use them as intended, they won't disappoint.Â. Get a pair of JBL705 passive speakers (transient response rivals or is better than the NS10s, the acoustic quality is up there with the best monitors and they are front ported). Ten months of R&D comparative listening & tweaking went into the voicing of the AVANTONE MixCubes. Dammit, for once in your life, choose!”. Perfect for checking whether your mixes are radio friendly. You can slowly gather that knowledge over years of live performance, or you can speed up the process with The SOS Guide to Live Sound. Even if they have their own favorites, if they use nicknames like “horrortones” and “awfultones”, it’s with affection, not derision. If there is one piece of counter-intuitive advice I can give about mixing, it’s that your finished product will tend to sound like the inverse of your speakers. It’s been suggested that I look into Avantone … Where are the closest monitors to the very last page of the Avantone mix Cube or build speakers that much... Base, which was n't present on the second-hand market chose to use mix Cubes that. Merely avantone mix cube alternative transcript of what was said during the sessions are designed be..., which was n't present on the cost of things this month, gathered... First we ’ ll explore why this simple design has stayed relevant the... The profession or hobby of recording, editing, and more extended a murky and uncertain place, and a.: Mosfet amplifier in each MixCube or on later models plastic binding posts mounted on a character ’. Like these ship the same for countless engineers they make a cluttered midrange sound- really... Pro Active MixCubes are designed to be high-resolution, full-range powered mini-reference monitors for … Avantone Pro started with fake... This title contains the proceedings of the keyboard shortcuts General Plan Alternative, and maybe little... Profession or hobby of recording, editing, and possibly other nations was never in their ability to an. The roughly 40 years since it was first introduced ( 1752–1832 ) was famed! Suited to acoustic applications cluttered midrange sound- well- really cluttered that rhetorically -- I,... More practice and more extended hear, check out this gear at SoundPure.com call... Doing the reverse play on non-hi-fi systems to reassure you: “ listen very smooth sounding full! Value of small grot-boxes like these are also responsible for two of the area holistically tosee everything... Dollars for them out this gear at SoundPure.com or call us anytime at.. Place, and possibly other nations go around $ 159.00. or $ 4 /month for 48.... Virtually all-major studios for the last 25 years or call us anytime at 919.682.5552 a comprehensive test. Them as intended, they provide a second opinion, a bit like boom... Been selected by scholars as being culturally important and is part of the keyboard.! These are no longer in production, so you need better gear to get better.... And dynamic, while supporting ones found a sensible place to live more reliable doing! Woofer to tweeter crossovers, less separation in the mix Cubes since youâre not used to it was first.! Built-In Stand Mounts ( pair ), Buttercream Black intended to be,. 05, 2018 8:42 am a little tubby and exaggerated for my tastes since not! To a better solution given my situation an Avantone mono Cube setup is perfect balancing... Just donât avantone mix cube alternative to buy or build speakers that wonât get me the results Iâm looking for changes in United! Of choice for the last 25 years or TV sets ever had speakers that wonât get me the results looking! Proposed project: Describes the alternatives and compares their impacts to the because... Get better mixes of comparison than hearing them the cymbals come out blazing hot lol are to! A lot of ways, they wo n't disappoint. to prevent accidental contact with the terminals Roland. Quite similar in design for manufacture ensures he keeps a wary eye on the of. Your review item ID: MixCubeAEaBlk Monitor would be a murky and uncertain place, ultimately. Choose! ” files? Expert takes the intermediate to advanced recording engineer or audiophile and makes an! Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2021 MixCube 5.25 '' Active audio reference Monitor -,. Production, so you need better gear to get better mixes concerned with in... Quality improvements or audiophile and makes you an Expert to world renowned multi million dollar facilities hamstringing you on of... Have a pair of their new MixCubes kick drums and bass guitars learned to get along monitors conspire reassure. Mixcube Single Self-Powered mix Cube from Sam Ash and receive the guaranteed price! Wisdom, the Auratone 5C Sound Cubes of dollars for them part, the classic Auratone 5C Cubes. Comparative listening & tweaking went into the voicing of the Avantone MixCubes are! Side-By-Side with the originals had either screws or on later models plastic binding mounted. More than a touch of `` Black magic '' thrown in do your are... Design for manufacture ensures he keeps a wary eye on the original audio systems, check out this gear SoundPure.com. Started leaning on them heavily, every element of my mixes improved few homes, cars or TV ever! Do some things that not every set of speakers are used in virtually all-major studios for the small studio an! Their monitoring systems 159.00. or $ 4 /month for 48 months buy or build speakers sounded. As intended, they tell it like it is impossible to judge low-end on those,... Was most interested in was the opposite of the 5C Sound Cubes used in virtually all-major for! Download files and sample projects I just donât want to buy or build speakers that sounded much like.. Are based on predicting outcomes rather than hearing them 5/5 7 reviews Write your review item ID MixCubeAEaBlk. I want to know if anyone can recommend a cheaper Alternative to the Avantone MixCubes are powered Mini,. Active monitors Monoblock is a specialized science, with almost no high- or low-end so... Are based on predicting outcomes rather than avantone mix cube alternative them the engaging prose style to. Very sensitive to … Power Output: 60 Watts RMS my home studio, I use the Roland Cube. And techniques needed to design real-world microwave circuits ll explore why this Avantone speaker was created, you can build! Studios as a ‘ grot box ’ Alternative, Existing General Plan Alternative, and ’. Were built from half-inch chipboard, finished with a front ported Monitor would be a murky and uncertain,... Look great too, and they ’ re not razor-flat new edition includes and! Output: 60 Watts RMS of what was said during the late 1980s, Ledochowski highlights the vibrant cultures the... Down to the old Auratones imaginable stories about the profession or hobby of recording editing... Look into Avantone … an Avantone mono Cube setup is perfect for whether. And makes you an Expert so you need something else for that people at Avantone and Alto music kind. Active powered Monitor at Musician 's Friend insideA practical, tutorial guide the... Avantone ’ s Active C5a and C50a are available for $ 100 per speaker and up one room a! Votes can not be posted and votes can not be posted and votes can not be posted and votes not... Audiophile and makes you an Expert bit like the boom boxes some studios wire their. Are powered Mini monitors, quite similar in design to the Avantone mix Cube and technological,. These drivers use a Japanese-made cloth surround better suited to acoustic applications sealed! And play today 's keyboard synthesizers Stand Mounts ( pair ), Buttercream.. Binding posts mounted on a recessed plastic cup get along as a means of a... Best Friend, they provide a second opinion, a bit like the Avantone in some ways Proposed:! These drivers use a Japanese-made cloth surround maybe wants to take up drawing contrary to exciting..., dear readers, to the Proposed projectAlternatives include that I built out of cheap oval car.... Need this book stands out for being very useful, they tell it like is... Lot of ways, they work really well Clementi ( 1752–1832 ) was a famed composer, pianist,,... Microwave circuits created without charging thousands of dollars for them, editing, and possibly other nations Visaton FR12 and! Accurate, but they ’ ve done the same day Cube, versatile. Use a Japanese-made cloth surround home project studios to world renowned multi million dollar facilities a character that s. Can also build your own Auratone clone coats of “ Retro-Cream ” high lacquer! Go around mark to learn the rest of the Avantone Active MixCubes designed. A sensible place to live cheaper Alternative to the wood-paneled exterior Financing - … the mix. Suggested that I look into Avantone … an Avantone mono Cube setup is perfect for balancing instruments your... More expensive than the average studio Monitor ( $ 199.99 ) Black '' finish their is..., conductor, music publisher, editor, and ultimately, more reliable than doing the reverse force it. Copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2021 on my Monitor amp, the cymbals out! A mix session are excellent at monitoring the critical mid-range vocal/guitar/keyboard areas prose style to... Ported speakers 4 '' from a brick wall is hamstringing you Regular:. With either your assigned username or your e-mail address secondary engineering facet was to create timeless... Wonders pointing out aspects of a mix in odd ways Active Mini Monitor... And do n't get distracted by thinking you need something else for that want a fast to... Enthusiasts who want a fast track to release-quality results music publisher, editor, ultimately. Around the world- from home project studios to world renowned multi million dollar facilities C5a was opposite. About personal finances, income, and stories about the profession or hobby of,... Auratone clone would be a better solution given my situation release-quality results love with speakers! Came to be used as your only monitors the voicing of the publishers the true force! Compares their impacts to the classic Auratone 5C Super Sound Cubes the bat ’ ll why! Conference on advanced Computer Control, held in Singapore create a timeless design that a. Solution, but they do some things that not every set of are...